Curse

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 09, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

When Sorrows was first applied and i was getting my second chracter to War camp, our runner insisted on dying, then drawing on the compass to "show us the way".
He then asked for payment when WE got there - just for pointing the way.

I didn't pay neither did the others in the group.

Sanji · Oct 09, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Align

And I guess you guys have no problem with the twinkers in ascalon & shiverpeak arenas?

Yes and no.

I don't like that PvE Arenas have pretty much always been FUBAR, but...

I honestly don't care a bit about PvE Arenas -because- they've always been FUBAR. Honestly, it bothers me more when people who are less than level 20 and don't have max Gear go to the PvP Random Arena than people with Elite Skills and Max Gear being in PvE Arenas. :P

javeh · Oct 09, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

oO BUFFF i see

calamitykell · Oct 09, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

There's a slight misconception you guys (arguing against running) have. You make it sound like everyone who gets run to Drok is level 4, then level 7 by the time they're in the desert. (Exaggeration, but not everybody who gets ran is severely under-levelled.)

Other than my first char, all my characters get ran to:

Yak's Bend. -After- completing all the Ascalon, Sanitarium, Serenity Temple, Frontier Gate, Piken Square Quests.

Beacon's Perch then Droknar's Forge. -After- completing all the Yak's Bend Quests.

Bergen Hot Springs, Beetletun, and Temple of Ages. -After- completing all the Beacon's Perch Quests, Gates of Kryta Mission, and most of Lion's Arch Quests. (Excluding Villainy of Galrath.)

Fisherman's Haven & Sanctum Cay. -After- completing the quests in BHS, Beetletun, and Toa.

Then I'll get ran to outposts in the Wilds area. I forget most of their names, but whatever. After I do all of THOSE quests, then I do the Sanctum Cay mission, and arrive in Amnoon Oasis, then to:

Elona's Reach/Thirsty River/Dunes of Despair. I do the missions mostly with henchies, but sometimes in PUGs.

Then I ascend, and do the Dragon's Lair (or whatever) with henchies and cap the 2 elites for my professions. And what do you know? I'm back in Droknar's.

My point is, not -everyone- who gets a runner to take them somewhere leeches. Do I get run to Droknar's? You're damn right I do. I don't feel like wasting money on armor in every new town I go to. Maybe you do, but I don't farm so I don't have a giant pile of gold to throw away. Also, do you even know how much experience and skills are gotten from quests ALONE? My R/N got ran from Ascalon to Grendich Courthouse, Piken Square, Serenity Temple. She's level 12 and I'll be looking for a runner to Yak's later. I know how to play my chars, and I am not even close to a hinderance to any PUGs I'm a part of, yet I get ran to a ton of places. I'm aware I'm probably the minority, but I'm not the only one.

Besides, this game is played different ways depending on what you enjoy. You don't see people crying "Why do people keep doing missions on every character? All of their LFG spam makes it hard for me to converse, and I can only ignore 10 of them!"

Get over yourselves. If you don't want a level 11 as part of your group doing the Elona Reach mission... THEN DON'T INVITE/JOIN THEM. It's also because of idiots who like to cheat runners (who think they're doing the community a favor) that I tip runners more than their asking price.

Tarot Ribos · Oct 09, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

To the OP: Er... wow. I can't believe he accepted that. I've gotta try that sometime.

If the guy agrees to run you for free, you don't need to pay him. Simple as that. The OP didn't cheat anyone... the runner cheated himself.

ANet has said they have no problems with runners, or the route to Forge from Perch. The route is obviously there for that purpose. From Forge, I can get the armor to make the PvE missions quite a bit easier... which means they go quicker... which means I have to put less time into things I've already seen five times over.

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

There's a slight misconception you guys (arguing against running) have. You make it sound like everyone who gets run to Drok is level 4, then level 7 by the time they're in the desert. (Exaggeration, but not everybody who gets ran is severely under-levelled.)

Other than my first char, all my characters get ran to:

Yak's Bend. -After- completing all the Ascalon, Sanitarium, Serenity Temple, Frontier Gate, Piken Square Quests.

Beacon's Perch then Droknar's Forge. -After- completing all the Yak's Bend Quests.

Bergen Hot Springs, Beetletun, and Temple of Ages. -After- completing all the Beacon's Perch Quests, Gates of Kryta Mission, and most of Lion's Arch Quests. (Excluding Villainy of Galrath.)

Fisherman's Haven & Sanctum Cay. -After- completing the quests in BHS, Beetletun, and Toa.

Then I'll get ran to outposts in the Wilds area. I forget most of their names, but whatever. After I do all of THOSE quests, then I do the Sanctum Cay mission, and arrive in Amnoon Oasis, then to:

Elona's Reach/Thirsty River/Dunes of Despair. I do the missions mostly with henchies, but sometimes in PUGs.

Then I ascend, and do the Dragon's Lair (or whatever) with henchies and cap the 2 elites for my professions. And what do you know? I'm back in Droknar's.

My point is, not -everyone- who gets a runner to take them somewhere leeches. Do I get run to Droknar's? You're damn right I do. I don't feel like wasting money on armor in every new town I go to. Maybe you do, but I don't farm so I don't have a giant pile of gold to throw away. Also, do you even know how much experience and skills are gotten from quests ALONE? My R/N got ran from Ascalon to Grendich Courthouse, Piken Square, Serenity Temple. She's level 12 and I'll be looking for a runner to Yak's later. I know how to play my chars, and I am not even close to a hinderance to any PUGs I'm a part of, yet I get ran to a ton of places. I'm aware I'm probably the minority, but I'm not the only one.

Besides, this game is played different ways depending on what you enjoy. You don't see people crying "Why do people keep doing missions on every character? All of their LFG spam makes it hard for me to converse, and I can only ignore 10 of them!"

Get over yourselves. If you don't want a level 11 as part of your group doing the Elona Reach mission... THEN DON'T INVITE/JOIN THEM. It's also because of idiots who like to cheat runners (who think they're doing the community a favor) that I tip runners more than their asking price.

That was a very well thought out post, unfortunately I think you've got it backwards- You're the one that has misconception why people dislike running.

Yes, there's nothing to stop you from being run so if it's the way you want to play that's the way it is. Being dragged through the game so you can get to the parts you want isn't my idea of fun, and I think it hurts gameplay for others. I won't go into the reasons because everyone who's against it has. Evidently people who run just don't get it.

Ah well, people are starting to complain there's not as many around and they are bored so I guess you reap what you sow.

Fyre Brand · Oct 09, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I'm not against running at all. I had my warrior run. Why? Just to do it. But then again my ranger (who finished the game) had a lot of money and I could afford both the run and the armour.

A lot of people are in the same boat. They can afford both the run and the armour or skills when they get to Droknars. They know how to build a character and don't need to be carried through the game.

The problem is there is no small group of idiots who can't do any of that. They beg a free run, or stiff the runner. Or even if they can afford the run they can't afford anything else. They expect everyone else to outfit their character. They ask a bunch of stupid questions about what they should outfit because they haven't learned from experience what would be good for them. People, both pro and con on the run, have to admit how annoying it is when people are non-stop begging in Droknars.

Or even worse, I am leveling a new monk. I am in the early Kryta missions. I'm in the mission zone and hear this guy repeatedly asking for 125g. I hate that anyways, but as I near the merchant to sell the junk I got from the last mission, I see this warrior in Drok armour who is like level 15 asking for the money. C'mon do I have to go further?

But to the OP ~~ What you did is cold, and as KvanCetre said, childish. If he wants to try and make money this way, that's his choice. It's really not your business to harass the guy just because you don't like how he does it. It's not a TOS violation to offer the service, it is agree to the service and not pay.

aknox · Oct 09, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

iono about ne1 else, but i dont really mind runers because i never party with ppl that i dont think are good enough to do a mission and i usually have all my local adn trade chats off, but i still sumtimes ask for a run then mess it up just cuz i think its fun to see how the runner(and teh ppl gettin run) reacts...kinda of topic but oh well

Fyre Brand · Oct 09, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Yes, there's nothing to stop you from being run so if it's the way you want to play that's the way it is. Being dragged through the game so you can get to the parts you want isn't my idea of fun, and I think it hurts gameplay for others. I won't go into the reasons because everyone who's against it has. Evidently people who run just don't get it.

I do think there is a larger group of players who are in the desert and southern shiverpeaks who haven't learned how to play their characters yet. They are impatient and don't work with a group very well. They think the 1.5k armour and skills they bought are going to make up for the fact they haven't put in the time to learn their strengths and weaknesses, or learn how to defeat a mop pack with team effort. It's usually these very people who get stuck at T-Head and blame the game and dev team.

I also don't think everyone who is run is like that. The one run I bought I had a blast on. The group was fun and we bantered the whole way. Our runner was great. Even with a horrible spawn pattern. I hunt Snake Dance with my ranger and know that sometimes the spawn clumps really really suck. Even so when he died a couple times, we rezoned and he offered us a free run. We all stuck with him, and even though he offered for free, we all paid because it was so much fun, and he was such a good guy.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the runner to be this filter. I think their responsibility lies in being professional and completing their service. What does anyone look for in a business transaction: someone who is polite, friendly and gives you what you pay for.

I think the responsibility is more on the player who buys the run to be mature enough to know how to and not to use it. I'm glad T-Head can be difficult for these people and keep them out of the Ring of Fire missions.
Do: know how to play your character and be somewhat familiar with the game.
Don't: expect everyone to carry you through, give you weapons and materials, or use this as a tool to go to Ascalon/Yaks arenas to walk over newbies trying to learn the pvp system.

I just don't think it is all as simple as, 'runs are bad' or 'runs are good'.

Dax · Oct 09, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyre Brand

I do think there is a larger group of players who are in the desert and southern shiverpeaks who haven't learned how to play their characters yet. They are impatient and don't work with a group very well. They think the 1.5k armour and skills they bought are going to make up for the fact they haven't put in the time to learn their strengths and weaknesses, or learn how to defeat a mop pack with team effort. It's usually these very people who get stuck at T-Head and blame the game and dev team.

I also don't think everyone who is run is like that. The one run I bought I had a blast on. The group was fun and we bantered the whole way. Our runner was great. Even with a horrible spawn pattern. I hunt Snake Dance with my ranger and know that sometimes the spawn clumps really really suck. Even so when he died a couple times, we rezoned and he offered us a free run. We all stuck with him, and even though he offered for free, we all paid because it was so much fun, and he was such a good guy.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the runner to be this filter. I think their responsibility lies in being professional and completing their service. What does anyone look for in a business transaction: someone who is polite, friendly and gives you what you pay for.

I think the responsibility is more on the player who buys the run to be mature enough to know how to and not to use it. I'm glad T-Head can be difficult for these people and keep them out of the Ring of Fire missions.
Do: know how to play your character and be somewhat familiar with the game.
Don't: expect everyone to carry you through, give you weapons and materials, or use this as a tool to go to Ascalon/Yaks arenas to walk over newbies trying to learn the pvp system.

I just don't think it is all as simple as, 'runs are bad' or 'runs are good'.

I hear what you are saying, and you have a very powerful argument. I totally agree that it's not as simple as good or bad. Still, I think the vast majority use it for simple expediency and nothing else.

Personally I think the end doesn't justify the means and the journey is better than the reward. I know other people have other thoughts on how they play the game and thats thier perrogative.

That being said since this is a community based game people's expediency affect other people. Whether it be a player who is immature, a player who doesn't want to take the time to make money and buys gold from gold sellers, or a player who feels it's the only way to play the game. Like I said in a previous post I don't think runners do a credential check at the door.

The game is only a few month old, whats the rush anyways....

stelliosm · Oct 09, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

The runs that i dont have a problem with are the ones with high prices.
If you are able to pay that price, it sorta shows that you are not new to the game.
But when im seing people run to forge for 1k each, or the 600 each if full group, this means anybody can get a run, even the people that have just picked up dropped gold, and havnt even heard of the concepts of farming and other money making outlets.
These runs i dont like so much

Fyre Brand · Oct 09, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Personally I think the end doesn't justify the means and the journey is better than the reward. The game is only a few month old, whats the rush anyways....

I totally agree.

Kai Nui · Oct 09, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Isn't there a rule. Goes something like don't say names. Etc...

Sister Rosette · Oct 09, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Bah, it's always the ones who say running is stupid who already have
all their characters past forge.

When I remade my Mesmer, I had her run to forge, then war camp at level 3.
At Furnace I ground her up from 3 to 20 in one night. (Galen's/Flamewhips'
quests)

Then got a run to ToA and Sanctum and entered the desert at level 20,
still circumventing nearly 1/3 of the game.

The point is, just because someone is level 20 doesn't mean they've
been through the entire game. So what if someone wants to pay people
so they don't have to do certain parts. It's their money.

KaPe · Oct 09, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

"Bah, it's always the ones who say running is stupid who already have
all their characters past forge."

No, I don't. Unlike you and many people, I'm not that lazy and I made 2 chars past Forge(and whole game, actually) and one is almost there as well, last slot being left for PvP.

Personally, I feel disgusted seeing <20 level in Shiverpeak areas, especially missions.

tomcruisejr · Oct 09, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

An additional problem is that none of the PvE missions really teach you all that much about the game, either...

try to do the 3 ascension missions, sir. :P

Sanji · Oct 09, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

try to do the 3 ascension missions, sir. :P

I did try to do the 3 ascension mission, sir. :P In fact I tried them so much that I ascended with 5 different characters, my Warrior/Monk, Ranger/Necro, Necro/Monk, Monk/Mesmer, and Elementalist/Mesmer.

Elona Reach and Dunes of Despair can be easily done with henchmen.

Thirsty River can be run smoothly if your team is able to divide by 2, have even the slightest bit of patience, and can attack the same target. Just because Thirsty River is easy to sabotage by awful players doesn't mean it's hard, same as Thunderhead Keep.

SoiL · Oct 09, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Posting names is against forum rules. You didn't "pwn" this guy, you were just childish.

totaly agree with you there, i have done the droknar run my self many times and on the odd runs i get idiots who dont pay or say they forgot there money. after the run they insult me call me a noob and such crap... tbh i think this guys just like the idiots i have run 2 droknars. i dont eaven die on the run and yet there wanting ME to run them and they call me a noob...

yet the guy above called the runner a noob which just shows what asshole there are on the net.

Wosco · Oct 10, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

Just because Thirsty River is easy to sabotage by awful players doesn't mean it's hard, same as Thunderhead Keep.

He didn't say they were hard. He was implying that new players can learn a lot by having to do them. Learning isn't hard, it's just learning. You say you can do Elona and Dunes with henchmen. That's great...however, your argument only works if you are implying that you are a new player (only presearing knowledge) who was just run to the desert. I am not in a position to make this assessment, but since you started your post by making sure we all knew that you had 5 ascended characters, I'll go out on a limb and say that you are not.

Sanji · Oct 10, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

My statement still stands. Missions aren't much of a resource or a requirement for learning how to be good at the game or know how to play your class properly. None of the desert Missions teach you any knowledge about Guild Wars as much as require that you practice common sense.

A new player who is run to the desert can and will ascend, and he can still do so while mostly being ignorant about the game. There are still plenty of utterly awful players in the Ring of Fire. Missions aren't scrub road blocks, but only serve to be scrub speed bumps. Skill and knowledge isn't a requirement for beating the game, only persistence.

Running may make it quicker for bad players to get far in the game, but it's nothing that wouldn't happen with a little persistence and being carried through the game by Pick up Groups. So no, I don't think Missions are good at teaching people how to be good at Guild Wars, not at all. That's mostly up to the player wanting to learn.